Meet Kevin McNally, aka Joshamee Gibbs
A note from your commodores:
We are pleased to present the first in what will hopefully be a series of interviews with some of the people involved in the production of the Pirates of the Caribbean films. For our inaugural interview, Keep To The Code member Gibbs Wench, webmaster of the official Kevin McNally fan site, collected questions for Kevin directly from fans. The resulting interview is below.
Actor Kevin R. McNally, better known to Pirates of the Caribbean fans as Joshamee Gibbs, was born April 27 in Bristol, England. He has been acting on television and in films since the mid-1970s.
Actor Kevin McNally in a recent publicity photo.
Kevin's extensive film and television credits can be viewed at this link, and he also has a great deal of live theatre experience. To read more about the man and view a large collection of photos from various stages in his career, you can visit the official Kevin McNally fan site at this link.
Let's start with your Pirates persona. As an actor, what aspect of the character of Joshamee Gibbs do you find:
a) most frustrating,
b) most rewarding,
c) most challenging, and
d) most fun?
Was any backstory developed for the character that you are permitted to reveal to us?
a) The fact his shirt is made of sailcloth and he wears a jacket over it.
b) The rich diologue the writers give me.
c) The action sequences.
d) playing a salty old sea-dog.
The only back story is the one in Pirates that he was a sozzled old sailor who had a problem with authority so he dropped out for a few years until Jack offered him a new life.
We have heard that some of the actors were given a chance to give their characters their first names. If this is true, why did you choose Joshamee?
I wasn't one of those actors but if I had been I couldn't have made a better choice than Joshamee.
Who was the bigger rogue, Joshamee Gibbs or Joseph Buquet? Which role was more physically taxing to play?
Joshamee is the more forgivable rogue but Buquet is an out and out rotter. The chase in the rafters of the theatre in POTO [2004's Phantom of the Opera] was tough and scary to shoot as I don't have a great head for heights. But some of the filming for POTC 2 in Dominica was brutal--running for days across sand and through water in 90' heat and 75' of humidity.
How did you get to meet Captain Sparrow? Is your role this time bigger than the first one?
Well of course we never see this in the film but I suspect that after Gibbs left the navy he helped Jack out a few times in exchange for a few drinks and maybe some light deck work.
As you uniquely have followed orders in both camps, do you prefer sailing under the command of Norrington or Jack?
Sailing under Jack is a lot more fun if a little more unpredictable.
Quite a rogue's gallery we have here. That's Kevin as Joshamee Gibbs on your left.
You've been playing Gibbs for so long now, will you suffer any separation anxiety like Johnny Depp will with Jack Sparrow?
A little. But fortunately there are plenty of other misfits, hoodlums and madmen for me to get my teeth into on dry land.
Did you know what manner of pirate CJS was going be portrayed as by Johnny before shooting, or was the off-beat performance a surprise to you also, and what was your first reaction to it?
It came as a wonderful surprise to all of us.
What is your actual rank on board the Black Pearl....Jack's right hand man and confidant to be sure, but does the crew of the Pearl have a full chain of command? Who is in charge in Jack's absence, Gibbs or Ana-Maria?
I think both would think they were. I like to think of Gibbs as Bo'sun or first mate.
Does Gibbs still think it's bad luck to have a woman aboard? How about monkeys?
He always will be a good old unreconstructed man of the sea. Women, children and animals have no place on a ship in his world.
How did Gibbs go from fearing pirates to becoming one?
Very simple. The promise of money, beer and most importantly...rum!
Just how well do you know Barbossa [in the story that is]?
I know the legend more than the man. And that terrifies Gibbs so much he really is glad he doesn't know him any better.
What attracted you to this character? If given the chance, how would you tweak his character?
My favourite TV comedian of the sixties was a man called Tony Hancock. He used to do a character based on Robert Newton's Long John Silver in the forties film version of "Treasure Island," full of eye rolling and 'Aaaaar, Jim lad!' and desperate cries of 'Yellowjack!' I saw this could be a slight homage to him. As far as the tweaking is concerned I'm getting the chance to discover more in Gibbs in P2 & 3.
What was your screen test like? How much did you evolve the character of Gibbs since the first read-through to the day the first scene was shot?
As with most successful roles I had a very strong idea of how I wanted to play him when I first went on tape and fortunately Gore Verbinski loved it. He very much wanted the old storyteller aspect of the character. And though Gore helps me find other things in him I've always developed that first reading without deviation.
Is filming on the water as much a nightmare as I hear tell it is?
It obviously creates more difficulties than filming on land or in the controlled environment of the studio but as yet I would not describe it as a nightmare. Though filming "Shakleton" in the Arctic Ocean certainly had its moments!
Did you ever become seasick [during Pirates filming]?
Yes. If the sea is in any way rough I have a nasty few days but I soon find my sea legs.
Is there any down time when you're on a ship at sea? What do you do?
Good question. There can be a lot of down time and we all have various ways of dealing with it. For a while just sitting on the side of the ship and enjoying the sea breeze can be fun. Finding a quiet corner to read a book or do a su doku puzzle or catch up on sleep is very popular. There are a lot of people to hang with and chat to and of course an endless procession of drinks and snacks to while away the day.
Who was the practical joker on the set and what kind of jokes were played?
There are a lot of jokes and banter on the set and Johnny can be particularly fun but a film set or a sailing ship is no place for practical jokes. People are pretty sensitive to health and safety.
Who flubs the most lines?
The only diplomatic answer to that is...not me.
What's your reaction to the popularity of this movie and franchise? Is it what you expected or is it more overwhelming?
Thinking back I was utterly amazed at quite how successful it was. Very few films are, and film based on a theme park ride didn't look too hot on paper, at least to me. But the integrity, talent and enthusiasm with which it was realized by everyone on the film, particularly Gore, the writers and Johnny gave it a real shot at the sensation it has become.
Webmaster Gibbs Wench with Kevin at Holborn Tube Station, London. Note Kevin is in "full Gibbs facial hair mode" here, even off the set. Now that's dedication!
When you finish the [Pirates] movies, what will be your best memory of this experience and what was the worst?
The best will certainly be the people. Without exception the cast and crew of Pirates is a big happy family and some of the nicest people I have met. The worst...I'd have to say the Caribbean climate at the height of summer and all the bites, rashes and dodgy tums that go with it.
Are your lines strictly from the script, or are some of them your own ad-libs? Are you given the freedom to do a little ad-libbing?
In filming there is very little ad-libbing on the day and virtually none on camera even by people like [Robert] De Niro and [Joe] Pesce in, say, Raging Bull. The improvisation, if any, comes before and is agreed by everyone before we shoot a scene, so in that sense I have had input.
I'd like to know if the "human hair from my back" comment by Captain Sparrow was an ad-lib on the part of Johnny Depp or written by the writers. [Your] reaction makes it look like he is about to crack up, and makes me think it may have been unplanned.
As the exception that proves the rule in regard to my answer to [the question above] this was an improvisation of Johnny's. And although the take you see was probably the third time I heard it I was still finding it pretty darned amusing.
Are there any other roles you've played that you would ever want to reprise, besides Gibbs of course?
There are a few though not in movies. Some TV and stage work.
Some actors are uncomfortable with seeing themselves on screen. Do you have a phobia of that as well, or are you able to watch your performances without hesitation?
This very much depends on my performance, some I like, others I avoid. I don't mind watching Gibbs.
Would it be too cheeky to ask if you could bend Disney's or Mr. Bruckheimers' ear a bit? Since POTC is at stern (sort of) could we get a peek at what else ended up on the cutting room floor? I know a lot more was filmed than just the deleted scenes they chose to include on the DVDs.
I'll see what I can do though I suspect that over the next two years with the trilogy being repackaged as each film comes out more and more material will be released. I don't think you are going to be starved of Pirates for some years to come.
I hope you all continue to enjoy Pirates and look forward to hearing from you all in the summers of '06 and '07.
Thanks, Kevin.
Oh, one last question from the fans: Boxers or briefs?
Boxers, tight around the thigh.
Creating Jack Sparrow
By staff writer Diane B. Rooney
Johnny Depp had it easy, in a way, creating Captain Jack Sparrow. Of course, Depp brought his own insight, inspiration, and magic to Jack's character and his look, language, and gestures. But an army of designers, wardrobe, hair and makeup professionals, prop makers, production assistants, water bottle bringers and other able hands helped him bring Jack Sparrow to life.
Since the release of "The Curse of the Black Pearl" in July 2003, Captain Jack Sparrow has become a popular figure at fantasy and sci-fi conventions and Renaissance Faires. There are Captain Jacks in all sizes and shapes, including some female ones. The big difference between them and Johnny is that they've done it all alone: everything from tracking down frockcoat fabric and making metal castings for pieces of Jack's compass to imitating his breathy voice and unmistakable swagger.
That's Wade on the left, and Toby on the right.
Two of the very best are Toby M. from Chicago and Wade F. from Atlanta. They took time out at Dragon*Con 2005 in Atlanta to discuss their experiences creating, and being, Jack Sparrow. There's no doubt about their popularity, or their character's -- our cafe interview after the Dragon*Con parade was interrupted several times by apologetic fans ("Oooh, an interview! I'm so sorry!") and as for the lobby photo shoot, well, we could have used one of those take-a-number machines to help with crowd control.
A Long Standing Interest in Costumes...And Characters
Toby in "Cannibal Jack" makeup.
Both Toby and Wade were interested in costumes and characters long before Captain Jack Sparrow appeared on screen. Toby got into costuming from Star Wars, explaining, "I've been interested in Star Wars since I was a kid. Later on I discovered the Chicago chapter of the 501st, and I thought, there are groups of people who do this? I've done several Star Wars characters over the years, Darth Maul, an Imperial Stormtrooper, Bobba and Jango Fett, Anakin, and of course Vader. Sauron was my first non-Star Wars costume."
Wade as Captain Jack.
Wade, who grew up in Florida, has been interested in pirates for some twenty years, since he was a kid visiting Walt Disney World and a certain pirate-themed ride. A musician and performer on the Renaissance Faire circuit, Wade was a musketeer before he was a pirate.
"Before Captain Jack Sparrow, I played D'Artagnan," he disclosed. "I'm Captain of the Georgia Musketeers Guild. My costume is the one worn by Edward Atterton, who played Lieutenant Andre in 'The Man in the Iron Mask'. Gabriel Byrne played D'Artagnan in the film, and I also bought his cloak and some props from the film. I worked hard to track everything down." Wade revealed he's actually a second-generation costumer: "My mother was an expert seamstress. I grew up learning about costumes and fabrics, because they were all around me."
The Summer of 2003
Neither Wade nor Toby was very into the film before it opened. Wade mentioned, "I knew the film was coming, but I didn't know a lot about it or even who was in it. I saw it opening night." Toby's initial reaction was based on the trailer. "I had seen the trailer, a few times, and it interested me. I was a bit wary, because it was a film based off a ride. Much like movies based from video games, the results aren't usually that great. But I did like the look of the costume. But, as with most movies, I didn't get a chance to see it right away. Not until October."
Getting Started with Jack
Wade began developing his Captain Jack right away. "I started right after I saw the film! Actually, it was my ex-wife's idea. She saw a resemblance to Johnny Depp and really encouraged me to do it," he revealed. He debuted the costume at Dragon*Con 2003, noting, "When I started playing Captain Jack Sparrow, less than two months after the film opened, no one was playing him. The response was overwhelming -- you feel like you're part of the movie. People refer to you as Captain Jack Sparrow."
Wade takes his costume research very seriously. "I did a great deal of research on the materials for the costume. As an artist, I knew that a fabric's color changes in real light. I took pictures of fabrics in stores before deciding what fabrics to use. The fabric for the coat was the toughest. I keep wondering how it would look on stage. I tried contacting people who worked on the film, Penny Rose, the propmakers, anybody I could think of who might have the information. I even tried to track down Johnny Depp's stunt double."
Both Wade and Toby have invested countless hours making their costumes. "I started the weekend after the film opened in July 2003, and the costume was done for Labor Day weekend. So I worked pretty much non-stop for about seven weeks to get it ready. That's not just making it, but all the research on pirates and the period, and all the work tracking down information," says Wade. Toby laughs, "Well, I've remade everything three times, so..."
Toby's Approach
Toby, who first saw the film in October, worked on an initial costume for Halloween 2003. "I first presented it at the Gathering of the Fellowship convention in Toronto in December 2003. I had only seen the film once. I collected lots of pictures of the costume and worked up the measurements," he explains.
His approach to costuming is rooted in a quest for accuracy and a desire to always learn new skills. "Over the last two years I've remade everything at least three times," he says, continuing, "For me, it's important to go all out. For example, on my Sauron costume I worked for two months solid until 2AM. I like to work on costumes that challenge me, where I learn something. I learned a lot about metalwork, for example, on the Sauron costume. I've also learned how to work in wood, in leather, and even in latex to create the toes for the Cannibal Jack that you'll see next summer in Dead Man's Chest. I like to experiment and learn from trial and error."
Toby's "Cannibal Jack" toe necklace. No actual toes were harmed in the making of this accessory.
Edward Scissorhands, Willy Wonka and Don Juan de Marco, in addition to Captain Jack Sparrow, are in Toby's repertoire. "I didn't mean to get interested in Depp roles. It just coincidentally became that," he says. "Edward Scissorhands was something I had always wanted to do, but it got pushed aside when I made Sauron. By the time I was able to get around to it, Jack was already finished. Don Juan only came to be because 1) I enjoy the movie, 2) It was something I could wear to ren faire that wasn't a pirate, and 3) It's basically 'the original' Jack Sparrow character, if you think about it."
(Note. If you look closely at the "Dead Man's Chest" teaser poster, you will see that the skull has a small figure dangling like a charm on the left side of his head. Enlarge this figure and you will see the hair and makeup design Toby used for Cannibal Jack.)
Character Development
Of course, Captain Jack Sparrow is about character as much as about costume. Both men talked about their approaches.
Wade explains, "I see the story set in the last golden age of piracy, say 1710 to 1714. I love the romanticism of that time. That's what I try to keep in mind when I am in character. And as a musician, I've studied Keith Richard, who of course was an inspiration for Johnny Depp. I am also a performer, so I spent a lot of time studying the film to get the mannerisms and the voice."
For him, the toughest part was the voice. "The mannerisms weren't that hard, since Jack comes across as a stoner rock star. What took a lot of practice was the enunciation, the way Jack rolls and slurs his words. Jack's voice is very breathy and uses a lot of air, plus when I am playing the character I have to project the voice. So it's very, very hard on the throat. After a convention, I have no voice for about a week."
Toby is a natural born imitator. "Literally, when I see a character, I have a natural tendency to just pick it up. I do it all the time, in my everyday life. I'm always imitating people at work, or at home. I probably developed it when I was in grade school, always being the class clown. When I first wore Jack, I just 'switched Jack mode on', and I kept going and going. I did the same for Willy Wonka. I was in the theater, seeing the movie for the first time, and I was already repeating some of his lines," he maintains.
So Whose Fantasy Is It Anyway?
The strength of Captain Jack Sparrow's appeal can be seen in the way fans react to presenters like Wade and Toby. Toby, who often works Jack into presentations of his other characters, says, "I can be wearing my Imperial Stormtrooper costume with a Captain Jack Sparrow head and makeup and people will still ask if I'm the real Johnny Depp. The costume has a certain power. I took a vacation in Honduras last year and people were begging to be able to take pictures with Captain Jack Sparrow."
Wade agrees, adding, "The response is overwhelming! I've gotten invited to lots of parties. At conventions, people seem to want me at all the events - The Rocky Horror Picture Show, the media parties. At Dragon*Con I was part of the auction, and I was even shanghai'd to a Goth party."
Wade had some interesting thoughts on fan-tasy, suggesting, "It's interesting, interacting with fans. You realize you are living in their fantasy as well as your own. You may get lots of phone numbers, but you realize they are only relating to you as Captain Jack Sparrow or as Johnny Depp, not as who you really are." He believes most fans relate to him as Johnny Depp rather than as Captain Jack.
Wade continues, "At a North Carolina Renaissance festival I was almost tackled by a kid, about 12 years old, who just wanted a hug. Through my website I also get a lot of emails from people, teenagers mostly I guess, who think I'm Johnny Depp. Not everybody gets that it's a performance, that there are boundaries. But as a performer you can't break character, you have to just channel whatever you're feeling into the character."
And there are judges in every crowd, Wade feels. "The majority of people, say 95 out of 100, really engage with the character. The other five tend to judge you, to evaluate how good you are versus the original. Of course, most of them are costumers and performers as well."
The Center of Attention
Like his screen counterpart, Captain Jack Sparrow draws attention wherever he goes. Best experiences? "Recently I auditioned for a two week gig at Navy Pier in Chicago in October," says Wade. "They treated us to dinner, but there was no time to change, so I ended up going to dinner at a really nice restaurant in costume. Everybody, the waiters, the maitre'd, the other diners, got into it. In a way, I love shocking people, just like Jack."
"You mean the standing ovation, from the entire Medieval Times arena, at the Gathering?" responds Toby. (I was there, and it was pretty amazing to see this outpouring of appreciation for a character that isn't even in The Lord of the Rings!) "The funniest, I think, are all the times that people are completely convinced that you are Johnny Depp, " he continues, "Doing the annual Disney lights festival, in downtown Chicago, I stepped out into the oncoming crowd of tourists, and people kept stopping to take pictures. One woman had a picture taken, with me and her son. After the picture, she proceeded to tell me how I was their favorite actor."
Be sure to visit Wade's website at http://www.captnjacksparrow.com/Tortugas.htm and Toby's at http://www.sithcamaro.com
Creating Jack Sparrow, Part 2: Costume Detail, Comparisons and Conclusions
By staff writer Diane B. Rooney
Two of the very best Captain Jack Sparrows, Toby M. from Chicago and Wade F. from Atlanta, have spent countless hours researching and making (and remaking) their Captain Jack Sparrow presentations. Toby has an extensive repertoire of costumes, including several from Star Wars, Sauron from Lord of the Rings, and Edward Scissorhands, Willy Wonka, and Don Juan de Marco in addition to Captain Jack Sparrow. Wade, a professional performer and musician, also has a musketeer presentation of D'Artagnan, made with actual costumes from "The Man in the Iron Mask." They were nice enough to share their approaches to developing each element of Jack's costume and effects.
Doing Your Homework Means Repeated Viewing
Creating an outstanding Jack Sparrow presentation involves intensive research on both costume and character and means going back repeatedly to the source. Interestingly, Wade and Toby only saw "Pirates of the Caribbean" once in the theatre. Wade says he's seen the film "tons of times on DVD because I was doing so much research on the costume and character," adding, "I have two copies of the DVD, one of which I won at the MediaPlay DVD launch party for Pirates." Toby notes that he's seen the DVD "probably not more than about 5 times, all the way through. Some of the times, it'll be bits and parts that I watch."
Out of Whole Cloth
Wade and Toby agree that getting the right fabric is critical to any costume element, and both agree there are no substitutes for the human eye and hand, despite the convenience of online shopping.
Toby's waistcoat fabric.
Their shopping resources? Toby explains, "I look for fabrics in Little India, in Chicago. But it's not limited to just there. I will drive miles sometimes to see the different types of fabrics. There is a huge warehouse of a fabric store here. They are always a great place to go. Sometimes I'll buy a fabric, and later not be happy with it."
Wade also shops locally. "I buy most of my fabrics locally here in Atlanta. I don't buy fabrics online because I can't assess the weight, texture, and how it will look in different light. I'll take pictures of fabric in different light and then look at them for a while before I decide," he says.
The Real Thing
Toby has made his Captain Jack Sparrow costume three times and is still working on it. His first version, made in October 2003, was done for Halloween. But the current one is quite different.
He explains, "For the most part, I had hands on access to an entire screen-used costume. That's why you see so many revisions now. I originally did not have that luxury. It was first meant to be just a Halloween costume, but I just enjoyed it too much, and decided to have it be one of my 'good' costumes, not just a quick Halloween getup. So there were initially money and time constraints. But on the screen-used costume, I was able to make all the castings I needed, and exact fabric matches, as well as the colors."
The Frock Coat
Wade's frock coat.
"First of all, to me, it's not a costume, it's my coat, it's what I would have worn in that time, a historical piece," declares Wade. He continues, "The fabric for the frock coat was the toughest. I keep wondering how it would look on stage. I tried contacting people who worked on the film, Penny Rose, the propmakers, anybody I could think of who might have the information. I even tried to track down Johnny Depp's stunt double."
"I did a great deal of research on the materials for the costume. I knew that a fabric's color changes in real light so I took lots pictures of fabrics before deciding what fabrics to use."
He explains, "I made the frock coat myself, from heavy linen, starting with a basic pattern for a 17th century coat. Then I modified it, to make it match the whimsical shape of the film coat, the way it's Disney-fied."
From his extensive research Wade has identified some differences in the detail and silhouette of the costume from the way historical pirates' garments would have looked. "If you look at the silhouettes of a lot of Disney characters, they're embellished, like the moustache pattern that decorates a Gibson guitar. For example, the buttons on the pockets of Jack's coat are below where they should be, and there are too many of them. Also the cuffs are too big, too flamboyant. And the split in the coat's tail is over-embellished, too. The fabric is folded nine times," he notes.
He remarks, "My coat is made of four long panels, cut from a 64 inch bolt. I've seen replicas that are made from eight panels. They use eight panels because it's cheaper to buy a shorter length of fabric and then use more pieces. You didn't see eight panels in a coat like that until Victorian times. It's just not accurate for Jack's time".
For Toby, his current frock coat is "still a work in progress." "I've got a pile of the correct buttons lying around, waiting for the 'finished piece' to be completed. Until then, I am totally satisfied with what I've currently got. After all, you don't have to wear it, to have a costume. And it can get hot!" he avers.
The Shirt
Toby explains, "I made the shirt from what they call "handkerchief" linen. I liked that they machine stitched everything, but hand stitched the collar & cuffs, since that's all you're really going to see on screen. Even having to glue the linen over the buttons was a joy."
Wade comments, "The shirt is a lighter, sheerer weight of linen, not muslin. It's correct for the period, and I also read that Penny Rose chose it because it breathes and would be more comfortable for people wearing it in hot climates. Linen has a rough texture, it naps and sags, just like clothes from the period."
The Breeches
Toby made his own breeches. He notes, "The breeches are linen, not wool. My first pair was made from wool, but my 'screen cloned' version is linen. It's accented with buckles and buttons cast from a pair of the screen-used breeches." Wade's breeches were purchased from Jas.Townsend and Sons, who make high quality reproductions for living history (http://jas-townsend.com).
The Waistcoat
Wade's waistcoat fabric.
Wade made his waistcoat, or vest, from 100% linen. "I got my pattern from the screen-used waist coat, the original auction winner and actor Scott White." He notes the fabric "has the same thread count as the frock coat and comes from the same company. The buttons, which he purchased, are called "silversmiths."
Toby also made his waistcoat. "The biggest problem with the waistcoat," he explains, "is in the color. On screen, it looks blue. But in actuality, it's a kind of indigo shade. I had to run my linen through about 5-6 washes of various mixtures of dye. I had to machine the 150 or so pinstripes into the linen for the backside of the waistcoat. You can't do it all in one sitting, so that's about five nights of work alone."
Toby also made his waistcoat buttons, casting them in pewter, "because the only commercially available buttons that are the correct size are made in plastic." "The commercial pewter ones are too large," he adds
The Baldric and Buckle
Wade's baldric buckle.
"The leather work on the baldric was done by hand by a friend of mine," says Wade. "The buckle on the baldric is cast iron. I made it myself from a fireplace andiron with a Dremel, then painted it with brass paint."
Toby's belt buckle.
Toby explains, "I made my baldric, sheath and buckle. I sculpted and cast the buckle, while the baldric was a quick little project. The one from the sequels will be a bit more of a task, as the entire thing is tooled with designs. It'll be one thing to tool it, and another to actually identify exactly what is tooled into it. My original buckle was made from epoxy clay & the aluminum frame, but my current 'final' version is cast in pewter."
The Boots
Toby explains, "I constructed my boots from suede, and built them over a pair of old shoes. I also have a tutorial, on my website, on how make these: www.sithcamaro.com/boottut/. The same process can be used to make any kind of shoe/boot. And it's the same process that I use on all of my costumes."
"My boots were custom made by Caboots (www.caboots.com) from photos of the prop boots," says Wade. "They made the boots for the two sequels, and you'll see on their website that what they're selling are overstock made for the films, just 'til they sell out," he continues. "They also make custom boots for bands, and they also sell costume boots for Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, Star Wars, and other periods and characters."
Essential Accessories
In addition to the major pieces, Captain Jack Sparrow also wears a range of accessories, including hair decorations and jewelry. Wade and Toby have also developed these items as part of their presentations.
The Head Scarf
Wade's head scarf.
Toby's head scarf.
For Wade, "the only challenge here was finding the closest print. Again, the fabric is the important thing." "My current one will be updated," explains Toby. "I will probably end up either drawing the entire design on, or blocking the design on."
The Waist Sash
"My sash is made from cheesecloth cotton. It frays easily. I got it in plain white and stained it with tea for color and then did the red lines with a red sharpie," says Wade. A pirate's sash "could be used to hold up breeches, as a towel, or as a mark of status. Barbossa's, sash, for example, is taffeta," he continues. Toby also made his own sash.
The Hair Beads and Marlin Spike
Captain Jack Sparrow's hair and hair ornaments are one of the most distinctive aspects of his costume. He wears beads, a pendant, leather ties, string, and a tool called a marlin spike in his hair.
Wade's beads.
Wade explains, "My beads are 200 year old African trade beads. The spotted ones are called skunk beads; they're made from hand blown African glass. The marlin spike, by the way, was used by sailors to mend sails and slice rope. My marlin spike is made of bone."
Toby's hair jewelry.
Toby made his own beads and purchased the Kuchi pendant. He also made the marlin spike, noting, "My marlin spike is clay with a metal rod inside." "I added the metal rod for reinforcement," he continued, "because the previous ones kept breaking. Every time people would take pictures with me, they'd press the side of their head against mine. Eventually the pressure would make it crack in half."
Toby's marlin spike.
The Rings and Sailor's Palm
Wade's rings and sailor's palm.
Captain Jack Sparrow wears a ring and a sailor's palm on his right hand. The ring is worn on his index finger, and the loops for the sailor's palm are on the next two fingers. The other end of the palm fastens around the wrist. Wade explains, "A sailor's palm was worn to protect the hands while hauling sails and to make it easier to work the needle when repairing sails. Mine is leather, and I did the tooling on it." He continues, "I wear a collection of rings, mostly purchased at faires. They're modern and handmade by craftspeople. The copy of Jack's ring was purchased."
Toby notes, "I started with a ring that I purchased, and then I detailed it, like the buckles, with epoxy clay. My original was made that way. But my current one is a direct casting, from a screen-used ring."
The Medallion and Bottle
Wade also wears a medallion and carries a rum bottle, shaped like the one Jack drinks from on the island where he and Elizabeth are marooned. "My medallion is a piece of eight from the Atocha. It's over 200 years old. It was a gift from a friend of mine at the Georgia Renaissance Festival. And my bottle is an onion flask, so called because of its shape. "
Not Without My Effects!
In The Curse of the Black Pearl, Jack is very attached to his effects, especially his hat, sword, pistol, and compass. He makes a point of getting them back from Commodore Norrington after Elizabeth's rescue, and he won't leave them behind even when escaping from jail.
The Hat
"I've made several of my own hats. The first perfect one I made blew off and into the river, and I lost it," says Toby. "The biggest pain was to shape the rounded crown. I had to create my own hatblock/flange to do this," he explains.
"The hat was made from a specific type of leather. I had my hands on one of Depp's actual hats, and, of the many reproductions out there, I have not seen anyone use the correct leather. Because of that, I cannot say what kind of leather it is. But Master Replicas just may produce an identical reproduction next year," he notes. Wade's hat was custom made by a friend who works in leather.
The Sword
Wade explains, "The sword is an English hanger. It's made by Windlass Steelcraft and I aged the brass myself." (Windlass Steelcraft items are widely available online, see for example www.armsofvalour.com)
Toby notes, "I made the scabbard myself. The pommel, grip, and blade are from Sword and Stone, the company that produced all of the swords for production." (www.swordandstone.com)
The Flintlock Pistol
Wade's pistol.
Jack's pistol, with its one shot saved for ten years, figures prominently in the film. Wade explains, "My pistol is a replica purchased from Denix Replicas, antiqued and aged. I used perspiration to age it. It's a non-firing replica, so I used a heat gun to burn the wood, where it would have blackened from powder." (Denix Replica flintlocks are widely available online, see for example: http://www.discountcutlery.net/en-us/dept_22731.html)
Toby's made two generations of pistols. "The original I made myself, but my current one is a resin cast of the screen-used piece. On the one I made, the base was carved wood. The silver design I made from aluminum, and the hammer, trigger, and barrel were altered from a purchased piece."
The Compass
Toby's compass.
Wade's compass.
The compass that doesn't point north, like Jack's other effects, is an important prop. As with the flintlock, Toby has also remade his compass. "This current one is made of cast metal pieces, ebony and inlaid bone. It was put together using a resin casting of the exterior of a screen-used compass. It was mostly for the measurements. The interior pieces were eyed from detailed reference photos. The earlier one was made of wood."
Wade says, "The compass was the most challenging of the props, because the assembly is so intricate." He continues, "I used one piece of wood for the box, and did the pieces of the interior from brass tape cut for the inlaid effect. It's hard to keep it together. I eventually redid it."
The Look
Wade's makeup.
The final details in the presentation are the hair, beard, gold teeth, and makeup. Wade reveals. "This is my real hair and beard! But it's dyed. I'm actually a blonde." "Being a performer," he continues, "I have a lot of experience with makeup. My Jack makeup is not theatrical. The eyes are Wet 'N' Wild, because it's waterproof, and for the face I use a Clinique self tanner. I start about a week before I have an appearance."
Wade's gold teeth are "real 14k gold made from a cast taken from my own teeth. They were made for me by an outfit in California." The bottom teeth, he explains, "keep you from closing your mouth all the way, so I don't wear them anymore."
Wade's beard.
Toby's beard.
Toby explains, "I've had three different stages of gold teeth. The first was using the brush-on gold tooth enamel. It was more like a crusty yellow than gold. You can imagine that that had a very short life. So my next idea was to make molds of my teeth and vacuform thin plastic over them.
"On the DVD," he continues, "they mention using vacuformed teeth on the actors. I glued Hershey Kiss wrappers over the sections that were to be gold. They worked pretty well, but eventually I upgraded to 14k gold caps, from www.gangstagold.com.
Toby says dirt is probably the most overlooked detail necessary for an authentic Captain Jack Sparrow. "Not only must the clothes be dirty, but the skin must be as well! Jack Sparrow does not take daily baths, or live in the lap of luxury." He continues, "You've got to have some dirt on your chest, a smear across your cheek, and your hands must look like you've been working on a car all day. You need some dirt under those nails!"
Toby also works on the look of both Jack's face and his tattoos. "I like to try to tan the 'P' into my arm. When that's not possible, I'll tan it with tanning cream & some 'dirt'. Same goes for the face. I need to start adding the patch of scurvy to my jaw though," he comments.
Showtime!
Ever wonder how long it takes to get ready to be Captain Jack Sparrow? Wade discloses, "Now I have it down to an hour and a half. It used to take longer. The hair alone takes 45 minutes. My fiance helps me with my hair and braiding my beard. You really can't braid your own beard!"
Toby's take is very different: "This is an easy costume to dress. Probably no more than 5-10 minutes." (Spoken by someone who also does Edward Scissorhands and Sauron.)
Neither has entered a lot of costume contests. Toby doesn't care to: "I really don't do this to enter the contests. Two reasons, mainly. First, I'd rather be out entertaining my friends, rather than being holed up backstage, and second, I don't believe that costuming should be a competition. Once people stress themselves out about 'being better than the others', the fun and purity are lost. I did enter the contest at GenCon in August 2004, mainly because the con staff kept asking me to do so. I won Best in Show."
Wade has won at three events. "I won the Hall Contest at Dragon*Con 2003 even though I didn't enter it. I was the first male to ever win that. It was also my first time as Jack. Next, I won at the MediaPlay DVD launch party. My prize was a copy of the DVD. I also won three awards plus two hall awards at CostumeCon 22 in April 2004, which was held in Atlanta. They were Best in Class for Workmanship and for Presentation in the Masquerade for my Captain Jack and Barbossa costumes, and an award called The Slattern, which is given to the entry having the most fun onstage."
Neither has an official fan club, either, despite the huge amount of attention they draw as Captain Jack Sparrow at conventions and other events. Toby says definitively, "I'm not looking for a fan club. I'm just out to have fun, enjoy what I do, and make good friends." Wade maintains a forum on his website and agrees it "could be like a fan club," though it's mainly a place for people to get together and exchange ideas, news, and things to do.
Final thoughts
According to Wade, "The biggest battle is getting the right fabric." Toby says, "I'm attracted to the characters I play. It's fun. If I did it for a living, it wouldn't be fun."
Websites
You can read more about Toby and Wade at their websites. Toby's website,
www.sithcamaro.com/main.html (home of the Dark Lord and Tailor), has extensive photo galleries of him as Captain Jack Sparrow, including studio pictures, a series taken in Honduras (standing in for the Caribbean), and some detail galleries (still in progress) on the hat, the compass, the ring, and the necklace of toes from "Dead Man's Chest." It also has Toby's news updates, galleries on all of his other characters and photos from conventions and other events. The gallery photos can be enlarged so you can see the details.
Wade's website, www.captnjacksparrow.com/tortugas.htm, has photo galleries detailing events he's attended, his Jack Sparrow and Barbossa costumes, his compass, and his Lt. Andre costume from "The Man in the Iron Mask," plus a forum section and links to pirate sites, conventions and faires, and his band.
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Jason Surrell: Looking Back, Looking Ahead
Writer, Imagineer and all-around good guy Jason Surrell is the author of several books, including "Pirates of the Caribbean: From The Magic Kingdom To The Movies." Jason recently took time out from his promotional appearances to talk with Keep To The Code about his past, present and future plans.
The Past
When did you start with Disney?
I started working for Disney on the Walt Disney World College Program in the summer of 1989 at the age of six. Sorry, I'm trying not to date myself. I was a skipper at the Jungle Cruise, and I think that's just the coolest first Disney job to have. The next summer, I came down to work on my own and auditioned for Entertainment, where I worked as a performer. Then, in January of 1991, I moved to Florida full-time to continue working in Entertainment and finish my education at the same time.
What's your educational background, for those who may want to follow in your footsteps?
I have one of those careers in which my education made very little difference in how things played out. Having said that, it was important for me to finish my degree. I have a BA in Liberal Studies with a Minor in Business Administration. It's one of those majors that people make fun of -- myself included -- but that major didn't seem to hurt Michael Eisner very much! I had originally planned to go to film school, but I got sidetracked by thinking a business degree would help me become the next Michael Eisner -- I mean Bob Iger. I guess I'm going to have to update all my anecdotes. Since I started doing creative work while I was still in college, I decided to find the path of least resistance so I could get out there full-time and keep doing what I was doing.
Click the cover to order "Pirates of the Caribbean: From the Magic Kingdom to the Movies" via Amazon.com.
Speaking of paths taken, talk about the path that led you to Imagineering.
Well, I started pitching show concepts when I was working as a performer, and I actually got a few things produced at Epcot and the Disney-MGM Studios. After a couple years of doing that, I had cobbled together enough of a resume to make it actually look like I knew what I was doing. That's when I went to work for Universal Studios, and for the next five years I wrote and directed all sorts of live shows and events for them. The highlights for me were five years' worth of "Bill and Ted's Excellent Halloween Adventure" shows for the park's Halloween Horror Nights event (1994-1998). They were like half-hour SNL sketches, but with stunts, explosives and elaborate musical numbers. To this day, they are among the highest rated attractions in Universal history. I'll never forget the day the event's producer came to me and said my show was rating higher than T2 3-D. I also wrote "A Day in the Park with Barney," which is still running. Toward the end of my five years there, I started working for Universal Creative, which is their version of Imagineering. I wound up writing the script for Jurassic Park River Adventure at Islands of Adventure, and that "E-ticket" experience was what enabled me to come back to Disney in one of the roles I had always wanted: Imagineer.
What's your proudest Imagineering moment/what project are you fondest of?
It might seem a little strange, because it's not exactly the biggest project in the world, but the Madame Leota tombstone we added to the family plot at The Haunted Mansion in the Magic Kingdom means the world to me. First of all, we got to finally honor Leota Toombs with a tombstone of her own; we were able to tie a show enhancement into the attraction's storyline by creating a "grave" for a major character; but, most of all, I got to see the epitaph I wrote standing alongside the classic rhymes written by X Atencio.
On that subject, your writing is seen by thousands of people every day thanks to Madame Leota's tombstone epitaph at the Haunted Mansion at Walt Disney World. How did that project happen?
The tombstone was created as part of our show enhancement program, which was designed specifically to add little touches to the parks that would keep them fresh and alive for the guests. It's all about "plussing" the experience -- it's what Walt always talked about. We just thought it would be a fun way to further occupy people's attention while they were waiting to enter the mansion. We're doing even more of that now, as you've all seen with the enhancements we've made to both The Haunted Mansion and Jungle Cruise at Disneyland. I think you're going to see a lot more of that in the future, because both the park operations team and the guests have responded so positively to the additions we've made.
How did "The Haunted Mansion: From the Magic Kingdom to the Movies" come about? Did Disney say 'hey, we've got this great writer in Imagineering, let's have him write a book' or was it more along the lines of 'hey, I'm a great writer in Imagineering, I'll pitch this idea to the company'?
I really just wanted to read a book about The Haunted Mansion -- not necessarily write one -- but it didn't exist. So I asked Don Winton, our VP of Creative down here in Florida how I would go about pitching a book, and he told me to "just e-mail Marty." So I wrote to Marty and pitched a book about the making of both the attraction and the film, which, at the time, was still a year-and-a-half away. He thought it was a great idea and loved the notion of riding the wave of awareness that the movie was sure to generate. I wrote a book proposal, which I had never done before, and Marty worked with me to get it just right. The next thing I knew, he told me that New York was waiting for my proposal and I should send it off right away. Within a month I had a contract to write the book. I pitched a Pirates book at the exact same time, but they wanted to go with The Haunted Mansion first to see how people would respond to a book about an individual attraction, which had never been done before.
The author, in his "corruptible mortal state."
"Haunted Mansion" is a terrific book crammed with concept art and information that had never seen the light of day outside of the Disney company previously. How difficult is it to present an old attraction in a new way?
It's actually not difficult at all because I've found that all I really have to do is -- literally -- present it. People possess a great deal of affection for these attractions and I think the audience for a book like this has always been there. All I had to do was create it for them -- and myself, as I've pointed out. Since a book like this had never been done, just by doing it we were presenting an old favorite in a new way, and the audience I long suspected was there turned out for it. These attractions "present" themselves -- they don't need me. All I have to do is get the story straight and cram in as much art and as many pictures as I can.
You were no doubt very aware of the hardcore, rabid Mansion fans but needed to keep in mind the average park visitor who only knew that there was "a haunted house" in the park. Was that a tough balance to get right?
The book was written specifically for the hardcore fan. There is way too much detail in there -- to the point of obsession, in fact -- for what I would consider the "general audience." We all hoped that it would appeal to a broader audience -- more casual Disney fans, movie fans, even horror and ghost story aficionados -- and it did. The book has sold too many copies to appeal only to hardcore fans, so we must have struck just the right balance whether we intended to or not.
You're also the author of "Screenplay by Disney." How similar is writing for film to writing for a new attraction?
Writing for Walt Disney Imagineering is decidedly unique, but it probably comes closest to screenwriting only because our group was born of the film industry. All of the first Imagineers were filmmakers from Walt's studio, and Walt always approached Disneyland and its attractions as three-dimensional "films" that his audience could experience as opposed to passively watch. So we talk in the vernacular of film and approach what we do in much the same way filmmakers in all disciplines approach their work. There's also a strong dose of theater in everything I do, which is no problem for me because much of my background is in live entertainment.
The Present
The newest book is "Pirates of the Caribbean: From the Magic Kingdom to the Movies." Will it follow a similar format to the Mansion book--concept, attraction, film?
Pirates follows the exact same template as the Mansion book. The first section is a comprehensive history of the attraction in four of the five Magic Kingdoms in the world. The second section is a scene-by-scene "ride-through" of the Disneyland original, with sidebars and other additional material that covers the three other versions. And the last section covers the making of the first Pirates of the Caribbean film. The very last page offers a small sneak peek at the future, with some images from Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest, and even a "teaser poster" that hints at what is to come in the parks. Tom Fitzgerald himself personally selected that particular piece to help get fans excited about the future of Pirates.
I've heard that a second Pirates book devoted solely to the films will be coming out in early 2007. Will that be a hardcover volume similar to "The Art of the Haunted Mansion" you wrote about that film?
There is going to be another book on the making of all three films, but unfortunately I am no longer writing it. The production wanted someone who was on set every day to write the book. On the positive side, fans will now get a truly first hand account of the making of the movies. Sadly for me -- and for her, let's be honest -- Keira Knightley will now have to find someone else to squire her around town and get her into all the cool clubs. She still calls in the middle of the night, weeping and demanding to know why. I can tell fans that the production team will be including more nods to the attraction in the second and third films, and they are every bit as cool as the references in the first film.
You visited the sets of the first Pirates film. What were those like?
I've been able to visit the sets of all three Pirates films at this point, and it's just as amazing as you might imagine. Exploring the treasure cave set was like being able to experience the attraction on a gargantuan scale and on foot! It was absolutely overwhelming. I had the same experience on the bayou set of Dead Man's Chest. The Blue Bayou has always been one of my favorite Disney environments, and to see it on such a mammoth scale was breathtaking. And let's face it, sitting the captain's cabin aboard the Black Pearl is just about the coolest thing in the world.
"Avast there, mateys, it be Jolly Jason!"
Can you share anything you found out while researching the Pirates book that surprised you?
The biggest surprise was discovering what a major role Herb Ryman played in the creation of the attraction. We know Herb was probably the driving force behind the look and feel of New Orleans Square, but I personally had no idea just how much work he had done on the attraction itself. Just as Ken Anderson has to be considered the "unsung hero" of The Haunted Mansion, Herb Ryman is something of an unknown soldier where Pirates is concerned. I hope the book helps illuminate just how much Herb contributed to an attraction people know and love all over the world.
Disneyland's Pirates of the Caribbean is probably the most popular theme park attraction in the world. What kind of pressure does that create for you as a writer?
The only real pressure I feel is getting the details of the story right, simply because I value these books as "historical documents," which I hope doesn't sound too pretentious. Even if it's something as "minor" as correctly labeling a piece of art, whether it's the artist or the year it was created, it's important to me to nail it. Beyond that, the attraction speaks for itself and "appeals" for itself, so all I have to do is present it in the best possible way. To use a comedy metaphor, I know this particular headliner is going to kill the audience, so all I have to do is not screw up the introduction.
Marc Davis and his wife Alice were a huge part of the Disneyland attraction, as was X Atencio. Speaking with him, X expressed both surprise and pleasure that people still enjoy his work all these years later. What were Marc and Alice's feelings about the longevity of their work?
I think the longevity of Disney art -- whether it's an animated feature or a theme park attraction -- is the single most gratifying thing to the artists who created them. That's what I hear again and again. They're sometimes mystified by it, because they feel like they were just going to work and doing their best every day -- just like we do now -- but the enduring appeal of their work means the world to them. It shouldn't really come as a surprise; it's a way to achieve immortality, and in such a positive way.
The Future
What other projects are on the horizon for you?
At Walt Disney Imagineering, I'm working on another new incarnation of a classic attraction, which is just about all I can say about it. I'm also working on concepts for a number of the Walt Disney World parks as well as Disney Cruise Line. On the book front, I'm just starting on the next one, Disney Mountain: Imagineering the E-Ticket Range, which will cover all the "mountain thrill rides" from the Matterhorn to Expedition Everest. That's due out in the fall of 2006. We're also still working on making From Star Tours to Indiana Jones Adventure: The Creative Force of Disney and George Lucas a reality. That's another dream project for someone raised on Lucas and Spielberg films. One thing about working in the entertainment industry is there's no shortage of idols!
Wrapping up, as an Imagineer, what would be your dream project?
I would love to work on a Magic Kingdom park at some point, which is probably true of every Imagineer. And, as you can probably imagine, I'd love to be part of a future incarnation of The Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean. That would be the ultimate combination of the old and the new for me, getting to make creative contributions to established classics and reinvent them for a new audience and a new era.
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